| Comments: |
|Amatuka||Relevant grammar question & comments #post69006>here (fifth post).|
P.S. Some handling for accidental, lone " marks inside a tags might be a good idea. ^^;
|ninja_k||I thought I wrote this yesterday... Can anyone confirm the relative strength of beki in speech? I was told it was rather strong...|
(seems odd for comments to dissapear...)
|bamboo4||べき is basically archaic.As such, it does have the effect of emphasis when used in ordinary conversation.|| |
|krafdhepkat||My translation professor always grimaces if I use `beki` in class, he says it`s too bookish. What are some other options?|| |
|Miki||べき can be replaced by （した）ほうがいい but not all the time.|
ex1087 & 1088 this is a kind of set and cannot replaced.
ex898 : もっと早くきたほうがよかった。
I don't think it's not too bookish if you use a casual sentence like this. But this sounds a bit acrid compared to したほうがいい.
|adamstudio||Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a sense that "beki" is really a noun rather than a verb -- much like "hazu" or "tsumori" -- a noun that is modified by possibly long left-branching phrases. So in "motto hayaku kuru beki datta" you'd have "[there was a] motto-hayaku-kuru beki." -- what do you think?|| |
|eidolon_shell||An important note would be to indicate that beki is used in a sense of "you should do something" as if there was an obligation involved such as attending a very imperative meeting or conference as opposed to hazu which roughly means "you should do something" without an obligation, e.g. "You should read books to get good grades"|
In terms of archaicness beki is moderately outdated.
|eidolon_shell||My correction. I made a tragic typo mistake. I meant to state that hazu is obligatory and beki is based on a general idea of supposition. Sorry about the confusion.|| |
|NR||It is incorrect to use negative+beki. (I made this mistake in my speaking test).|
eg, this is gramatically incorrect: その本を読まないべきです。
|akiokun||If you want to say you should not read you say.|
|dc||great discussion. maybe someone could place a summary of the agreed meaning in the notes section at the top? (btw is Xephyers comment correct?)|| |
I wonder who says 欠くべからざる nowadays.
The other examples are all good.
|Miki||To Nick, #1087 欠くべからざる is still used in a speech and in writing. |
実際、これらの目標を達成するのに不可欠な役割を果たしてきた would be a better alternative.
|Gren||From my experience, べき is used in conversation only in philosophical or theoretical type discussions..... when talking about things you should or shouldn`t do in society or at school or even just while driving a car -- that`s the only time I ever hear it in conversation. Any feedback on this --|| |
べき is the 連体形 of the classical auxiliary verb べし, which attaches to the dictionary form of verbs. It's not a noun.
Can you express the idea of "should" with "〜ばいいだろう"？
|gregory||Hello. Need a hand here , guyz.|
if i add だった to べき , the meaning changes to should have done sth ? and at the top of this page it says : Meaning: should do Vru, why is benkyou followed by su, instead of Vru(which would have been suru)「Mちゃん、もっと勉強すべきだよ。」and Mr.dc said it must not be used in negative sentences, what about this one [ あなたは他の人たちの援助を当てにすべきでない。 ]
seems negative to me ^^
Help is much appreciated.
|tigert||Hey gregory すべき is japanese short form for するべき｡ and yes adding だった to the end of the sentence changes it to past tense. |
about the negatives. what he ment by that is that you cannot use a negative verb before the べき
I hope that helps a little, I would try and break into your example, work day has just ended and I`m off to prep for a much needed vacation.
|Miki||#1088 好機逸すべからず。This is ことわざ(saying) Strike while the iron is hot, is a translation in a dictionry. 好機（こうき）、逸する（いっする）|| |
|Jinyanwa||There is a negative form of べき that can be used instead of 方がいい. They have slightly different meanings behind them also.|| |