| Comments: |
|Amatuka||I think 'にしても' is more like "even with" "even for"|| |
|bamboo4||The first example is bad because we normally use としても. The second example, in the sense of "if we were to make..." is okay but the meaning of this sentence is not at all clear. || |
|dc||maybe this is usually used as the second clause to emphasize? See if my third example above makes sense|
として = for
にしても = even for
|Miki||ex#286 is the transformation of 無効にする, isn't it? I think this is not included to this にしても.|| |
|Miki||As for the first example, I agree with bamboo4.|
As for the 3rd and 4th examples, they can be reaplced by にさへ or にとっても.
|Miki||〜にしても can be reaplced by = （例えtatoe）〜としても → even if|| |
|bamboo4||警護(guarding) should be replaced with 敬語(honoriffics) in the fourth example. In addition to Example 1, it is more natural to use としても in Examples 3 and 4.|| |
|dc||hmm, so we don't have a good example for nishitemo ?|
maybe i am getting confused with nishiteha
|dc||can someone check my trans of |
それ にしても 最近雨ばかり
|Miki||'それにしても'is used to (1) to change the topic, (2) even so.|
The example 5 is (1). so E-trans should be changed to
|Miki||Anyway,its been nothing but rain recently.|| |
|bamboo4||It might be more suitable to use であっても or colloqual だって for Examples 1, 3 and 4 にしても in Examople 2 can be a different animal.|| |
|bamboo4||Examples 3 and 4 can be simplified to でも. If you have でも already, they should go there. As for それにしても 最近雨ばかり, I don't have any problem.|
|dc||The demo we have means "but". |
日本人 でも 敬語は難しい
= japanese -but- keigo is tough ??
or can demo also mean "even for" ?
|Miki||This でも means 'even for" and different from but=でも.|| |
|bamboo4||Miki-san is correct. Since 敬語 is the primary topic, the word order would normally be 敬語は日本人でも難しい. Yu can also say, cnversationally, 敬語となると日本人だって難しい.|
|halx||same as ~に(も)せよ and ~にしろ|
also in constructs like ~にしろ~にしろ in the meaning of ~でも~でも
|Quobobo||I think the "無効にしても” example is different from the rest. In it, nishitemo is simply a conjugation of mukounisuru, which means "to make inactive / to disable". In this case it's changing the meaning to "even if you disable it". Since you can do this for any verb (te form plus mo), isn't this different than the other ones?|| |
|bamboo4||You are absolutely correct, Quobobo!|| |
|kai||wow quobobo your one smart cookie;)|| |
|dc||OK interesting. Maybe that is the "ni shite mo" that I hear most often - basically "even if you do X"...|
But this is very similar to "even for..." - so is this grammar block related to or evolved from "X ni shite mo"?
|bamboo4||ex #4867 does not make sense either in Japanese in English translation. || |
|zio||You're quite right, it ought to be something more like "Nevermind those traffic jams, you mustn't be late", don't you think?|| |
|dc||zio - feel free to edit...|| |
|kadoka66||Correct me if I am wrong and I think I am reitterating some things in other people's comments, but isn't にしても simply the same as にしては except that the former shows more surprise at something being contrary to ones expectation.|
See these examples.
日本人にしては背が高い。 It may be that we naturally assume a Japanese person to be shorter than say someone from America so when they are taller it is a surprise.
Even if the stereotype is for a Japanese person to be shorter this person is exceptionally so.
English = Even for a Japanese person he/she is short.
(No offense intended here. It just seemed like a perfect example to stress my point) As a matter of fact I know several 6 foot Japanese guys and a 5 foot Japanese girl disproving any idea that Japanese people are short.
Anyway I added a better example above.
|赤毛||I looked in the PDF of Meguro Language Center for JPLT2 (http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/DownloadF/2-all.pdf) and I found some "にしては" but no "にしても" in the list of grammar points appearing in past test.|
I looked in the site http://www.japonin.com/intermediate-grammar-list.php and there is a reference to "にしては" but for "にしても" no reference too.
Are you sure this is useful for level 2 of JPLT?